Our Common Text 2004-2005

ROUGHLY EDITED COPY

ROCHESTER INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY

April 27, 2005

COMMON TEXT SERIES

HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG BY ANDRE DUBUS III

PRESENTER: JENNIFER WOLFLEY, LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE DEPARTMENT

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This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.

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>> I'M VERY HAPPY THIS

EVENING, AS THE FIRST OF THE

THREE EVENTS AROUND OUR

READING OF THE COMMON NOVEL,

TO INTRODUCE JEN WOLFLEY, WHO

IS PROGRAM DIRECTOR OF THE

MARY MAGDALENE WOMEN'S

OUTREACH CENTER.

JEN IS ALSO, AND MOST

RELEVANTLY, A MEMBER OF THE

LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE

DEPARTMENT AND HAS TAUGHT

WRITING AND LITERATURE 1 AND

2, A COURSE WITH WHICH MANY OF

YOU ARE VERY CURRENTLY

FAMILIAR.

AT THE MARY MAGDALENE WOMEN'S

OUTREACH CENTER WORKS WITH

POSTINCARCERATES.

I THINK THAT MEANS PEOPLE WHO

HAVE BEEN IN PRISON, IS THAT

RIGHT?

THERE WE GO, DRUG ADDICTS,

PROSTITUTES, THOSE IN 12-STEP

PROGRAMS AND SOMEONE-- WE HAVE

SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THAT

WITH US THANKS TO JEN.

JEN RUNS THE VARIOUS PROGRAMS

IN TREATMENT CENTERS AS WELL

AS IN JAIL.

JEN HAS BEEN WITH THE CENTER

AND WITH RIT FOR FIVE YEARS.

PRIOR TO THAT, SHE WORKED WITH

THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS

AT ATTICA AND GROVELAND STATE

PRISONS.

PLEASE BE VERY, VERY GOOD

TONIGHT AND JOIN ME IN

WELCOMING JEN WOLFLEY.

(Applause)

>> Jen: THANK YOU.

CAN EVERYBODY HEAR ME?

YES, NO?

YES.

GOOD.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE JEN

WOLFLEY AND MARY HESS SHOW

TONIGHT, BUT PROFESSOR HESS

HAS SOME SORT OF LAST-MINUTE

SCHEDULING DIFFICULTY, SO SHE

WON'T BE HERE.

NOW I DON'T KNOW WHO THE OTHER

WATER WAS FOR.

I DON'T KNOW.

I FEEL ALMOST LONELY UP HERE.

I'M SUPPOSED TO BE EXPECTING

PEOPLE.

IT WOULD BE ONE THING IF THIS

WAS CHEESECAKE I SUPPOSE, I

WOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING BUT

THIS IS A LOT OF WATER.

ANYWAYS, A PLEASURE TO BE HERE

TONIGHT.

I'M ALWAYS THRILLED TO COME TO

THE RIT COMMUNITY.

SOMETIMES I WISH THAT I HAD

MORE TIME EVEN WITH MY

STUDENTS IN WRITING AND LIT 1,

2.

WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT I KNOW

FOR YOU IT FEELS LIKE FOREVER

FOR SOME OF YOU BUT THE

QUARTER GOES SO FAR THAT YOU

WISH YOU HAD TIME TO ADD OTHER

THINGS TO THE CURRICULUM, AND

THAT'S WHY I LOVE COMING OUT

IN THE EVENING TO DO THIS KIND

OF PIECE FOR YOU BECAUSE

THERE'S JUST SO MANY THINGS I

WISH I COULD SAY.

I DO HAVE ONE STUDENT HERE AND

SHE'LL PROBABLY TELL YOU I

CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT YOU WANT TO

SAY THAT YOU DON'T SAY

ALREADY, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY

THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE

WITH YOU AND TALK TO YOU ABOUT

WITH REGARD TO "HOUSE OF SAND

AND FOG."

I HAVE TO BE VERY HONEST WITH

ALL OF YOU.

OUT OF ALL THE COMMON NOVELS,

THIS ONE'S MY FAVORITE.

WE READ SOME PRETTY GOOD

NOVELS.

WE HAD "TREE OF RED STARS" BY

TESSA BRIDAL.

WE HAD "INTUITIONIST" WHICH IS

A GOOD READ BY THE WAY BY

COLSON WHITEHEAD.

WE HAD "JARHEAD" BY TONY

SWOFFORD, AND NOW WE HAVE THIS

LITTLE PIECE "HOUSE OF SAND

AND FOG," AND I LOVED THIS

PIECE.

I LOVE WHAT DUBUS HAS OFFERED

US.

NOW I'M NOT THRILLED WITH

EVERY ASPECT OF THE NOVEL.

THERE ARE THINGS MAYBE THAT

YOU GO IN SORT OF WITH AN

EDITOR'S MIND SET, A READER'S

MIND SET, A WRITER'S MIND SET,

YOU SAY "OH, THIS DOESN'T

WASH.

OH, THIS DOESN'T SEEM

REALISTIC.

OH, I CAN'T STAND THIS

CHARACTER."

BUT ALL IN ALL DUBUS DOES A

FANTASTIC JOB AND I'M GOING TO

QUALIFY WHY I SAY THAT.

I'M AMAZED-- AND I MET HIM BY

THE WAY.

SOME OF YOU HAVE MET HIM, I'M

SURE.

I'M AMAZED THAT THIS WRITER

CAN CRAFT FOR US SO MANY

DIFFERENT CHARACTERS THAT ARE

SO DIFFERENT, CULTURALLY

DIFFERENT; THE GENDER IS

DIFFERENT OBVIOUSLY.

HE'S JUST NOT WRITING FROM ONE

PERSPECTIVE.

HE'S WRITING FROM ALL THESE

DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES WHERE

HE'S BRINGING IN CULTURAL

DIFFERENCES AND ECONOMIC

DIFFERENCES.

I SAID TO ANDRE DUBUS WHEN WE

WENT OUT TO DINNER-- A GROUP

OF US WENT OUT FOR DINNER.

HE'S REALLY QUITE ENGAGING.

I SAID TO HIM, I SAID "WHAT

EXPERIENCES DO YOU HAVE, IF

YOU DON'T MIND ME ASKING, THAT

LEND THEMSELVES TO YOU

CREATING ALL THESE VERY RICH,

FULL-BODIED CHARACTERS?

BECAUSE I DON'T CONSIDER

MYSELF A WOMAN OF THE WORLD

BUT I'VE BEEN AROUND, AND I

DON'T REALLY THINK I COULD

WRITE SOMETHING SO WELL,

STAYING SO CLOSELY WITHIN THE

LINES OF THE DIFFERENT

CULTURES THAT ARE REALLY

REPRESENTATIVE IN THIS NOVEL.

SO I SAY THAT RIGHT OFF THE

BAT.

THE SECOND THING I FELT

EXCITED ABOUT WHEN I TALK

ABOUT THIS NOVEL IS I LOVE THE

TITLE "HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG."

I LOVE THAT.

I THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW

DOES THE TITLE MATCH UP WITH

THE NOVEL?

JUST TO THINK, YOU KNOW, SAND

AND FOG, YOU KNOW.

ALL OF US FOR THE MOST PART

HAVE WALKED ON SAND, ON A REAL

BEACH.

I DON'T KNOW.

I ARGUE THAT WITH PEOPLE IN

ROCHESTER ALL THE TIME.

I TELL THEM LAKE ONTARIO ISN'T

A REAL BEACH, BUT YOU KNOW

WHAT I MEAN.

SAND IS LIKE-- IT'S ALMOST

LIKE IT'S ALWAYS MOVING, YOU

KNOW, NO MATTER HOW STRONG

YOUR FOOTING IS, YOU ALWAYS

FEEL LIKE YOU'RE SLIPPING A

LITTLE, DON'T YOU?

YOU KNOW HOW IT IS WHEN YOU

WALK?

EVEN ON THE BEACH AND THE TIDE

COMES IN, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN

IT'S LIKE YOU COULD HAVE

WALKED FOR MILES AND THE TIDE

JUST CAME LIKE THAT AND TOOK

ALL OF YOUR FOOTPRINTS AWAY.

SO HOW MANY OF YOU IN HERE

HAVE TRULY READ "HOUSE OF SAND

AND FOG"?

JUST CURIOUS.

OH, QUITE A BIT.

SO IN WHAT I JUST SAID TO YOU,

COULD YOU SEE NOW WHERE THE

NOVEL AND THE TITLE REALLY ARE

PARALLEL.

ANYBODY FEEL THAT?

JUST THE IDEA OF FOG.

ANYBODY HERE EVER DRIVE IN

FOG?

IF YOU DROVE IN ROCHESTER, YOU

DROVE IN FOG.

YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT

ROCHESTER: GIVE US 15 MINUTES.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WEATHER,

SOMETHING ELSE WILL HAPPEN,

YOU KNOW.

JUST TO DRIVE INTO FOG, THE

ELEMENTS OF FOG.

YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE WHERE

YOU'RE GOING, CAN YOU?

YOU SORT OF SEE SHAPES IN THE

DISTANCE BUT IT'S HARD TO

GAUGE HOW FAR OR HOW CLOSE

SOMETHING IS.

AND FOG IS ONE OF THOSE FUNNY

ELEMENTS THAT ONE MINUTE

YOU'RE IN IT AND THEN THE NEXT

MINUTE YOU'RE OUT OF IT.

YOU SAY OH, THIS IS GOING TO

BE SMOOTH SAILING AND ALL OF A

SUDDEN YOU'RE BACK IN IT

AGAIN.

YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK OF WHEN

I THINK OF THE TITLE "HOUSE OF

SAND AND FOG"?

I THINK OF KATHY, THE

CHARACTER THAT WE GET TO KNOW

AS KATHY.

AGAIN HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG,

YOU KNOW.

A LOT OF SAND IN KATHY.

A LOT OF FOG IN KATHY, YOU

KNOW.

JUST WHEN WE THINK SHE HAS A

FOOTING SHE LOSES IT.

JUST THAT KIND OF ANALOGY, YOU

KNOW.

SO I LOVE THE TITLE.

I THINK ABOUT THE TITLE QUITE

OFTEN.

A COUPLE THINGS I WANTED TO

TALK TO YOU ABOUT TONIGHT IS

ABOUT WOMEN'S ISSUES IN THIS

PARTICULAR NOVEL, AND I WANT

TO TOUCH UPON SOME ISSUES,

MEN'S ISSUES BECAUSE I THINK

THEY'RE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

MY COLLEAGUE, MARY HESS, IS

GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE

AMERICAN DREAM.

AND, YOU KNOW, I SORT OF THINK

IT MIGHT BE NICE FOR ME JUST

TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKDROP IN

HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE

AMERICAN DREAM, EVEN THOUGH

PROFESSOR HESS COULD DO A FAR

BETTER JOB ON THAT SUBJECT

PERHAPS THAN I COULD, BUT I

WANT TO OFFER A COUPLE THINGS

UP TO YOU AFTER A DISCUSSION I

HAD WITH HER.

WE TALK OFTEN ABOUT THE

AMERICAN DREAM.

ANOTHER THING THAT YOU HEAR

VERY OFTEN IS THIS THING

CALLED AMERICANA.

SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, IN OUR

WORLD, IN OUR REALITY, WE HAVE

THIS IDEA, WHAT?

THAT HOME OWNERSHIP MEANS

STABILITY, RIGHT?

THAT HOME OWNERSHIP MEANS

EQUITY.

ANYBODY IN HERE WATCH LATE

NIGHT TV, OTHER THAN Q.B.C?

WELL, ON LATE NIGHT TV, IT'S

REALLY AMAZING.

THERE MUST BE 30 COMMERCIALS

AT ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT THAT

TALK ABOUT HOME EQUITY LOANS.

"IF YOU OWN YOUR OWN HOME,

THIS COMMERCIAL IS FOR YOU."

AND ALL NIGHT THIS GOES ON,

AND YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, WELL,

WHAT IS THIS PITCH?

THE WHOLE THING ISN'T THAT IN

OUR CULTURE, IN OUR SOCIETY,

WE PLACE A LOT OF IMPORTANCE

AND EMPHASIS ON THE IDEA OF

THE HOME.

ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT IN

THINKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN

DREAM IS WHEN WE HEAR THE

SAYING HOME AND HEART.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY HOME

AND HEART, YOU KNOW, WHERE IF

YOU HAVE A HOME AND YOU'RE

STABLE AND EVERYBODY'S HAPPY,

WE HAVE A WHITE PICKET FENCE

DREAM IN THIS COUNTRY.

THERE ARE THESE MARVELOUS ADS.

YOU'RE NOT THERE YET, MOST OF

YOU, BUT SOME DAY YOU'LL BE,

WHERE IT SAYS YOU CAN AFFORD A

$500,000 HOME FOR $735 A

MONTH.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BRING

ON SIGN TO THE BANK WITH ME TO

EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU'RE GOING

TO OWN A HOME THAT GRAND FOR

$735 A MONTH.

BUT THIS IS THE CULTURE IN

WHICH WE LIVE.

IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER CULTURES,

THIS WHOLE IDEA OF A HOME IS

PREVALENT AND IN OTHERS IT

ISN'T.

FOR INSTANCE THERE ARE

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN URBAN AND

SUBURBAN PEOPLE.

IF YOU COULDN'T TELL, I COME

FROM AN URBAN AREA.

I COME FROM THE GREATER NEW

YORK CITY AREA OF BROOKLYN.

VERY FEW OF US OWN HOMES

BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE

SPRAWLING GEOGRAPHY AND

LANDSCAPE TO BUILD UP-- OUT,

RATHER, SO WHAT DO WE DO?

WE BUILD UP.

THIS WHOLE IDEA OF OWNING

HOME, OF HAVING SOME PLACE

THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO OUT

IN THE WORLD, YOU CAN GO BACK

AND SOMEBODY'S GOING TO TAKE

YOU IN, IT'S NOT ONLY A

STABILITY ISSUE; IT'S LIKE AN

EMOTIONAL ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ONLY YOUR

PLACE.

IT'S WHERE YOUR THINGS ARE.

IT'S JUST LIKE LIVING IN THE

DORM ROOM.

SO YOU DON'T THINK OF IT AS

HOME ALL THE TIME.

IT DOES BECOME A TEMPORARY

HOME WHERE YOU KEEP YOUR

THINGS, YOU KNOW.

IT SPEAKS TOWER PERSONALITY.

I COULD GO BACK TO 20 RANDOM

DORM ROOMS WITH 20 PEOPLE IN

THIS ROOM AND I GUARANTEE YOU

I DON'T HAVE TO KNOW MUCH

ABOUT YOU, BUT IF I LOOK

AROUND THE ROOM I'M GOING TO

GET TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT

YOUR LIKES, YOUR DISLIKES,

WHAT YOU LISTEN TO AND SO ON

AND SO FORTH.

WELL, THAT'S THE SAME IDEA OF

HOME.

THE OTHER THING ABOUT THE

AMERICAN DREAM, ASIDE FROM THE

FACT THAT EVERYBODY SEEMS TO

WANT TO OWN A HOME, IS THE

FACT THAT HOME REPRESENTS A

LOT OF THINGS TO A LOT OF

DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

FIRST OF ALL, WITH THE IDEA OF

HOMES, IT REPRESENTS SORT OF

AN EMOTIONAL SECURITY, YOU

KNOW.

EVEN IF IT'S NOT YOUR HOME,

IT'S YOUR PARENTS' HOME; IT'S

THAT PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GO

BACK AND THEY HAVE TO LIKE

YOU, YOU KNOW.

SOMEPLACE WHERE YOU CAN FEEL

COMFORTABLE.

YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE.

IT'S NOTHING NEW.

THE OTHER ASPECT OF HOME IS

THE FACT THAT WHEN PEOPLE PUT

ROOFS DOWN AND THEY FEEL

SECURE ENOUGH, THEY CAN GO OUT

AND CONQUER THE WORLD, RIGHT,

BECAUSE IF EVERYTHING FAILS

OUT IN THE WORLD, YOU HAVE

SOME PLACE YOU CAN GO BACK TO.

THIS CHARACTER THAT WE GET TO

KNOW AS KATHY, MANY PEOPLE

FIND HER VERY FRUSTRATING.

HOW MANY PEOPLE IN HERE

HONESTLY FIND HER VERY

FRUSTRATING?

YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY TO THIS

CHARACTER, "KATHY, OPEN YOUR

MAIL."

WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO

SAY?

"KATHY, DON'T HAVE THAT GLASS

OF WINE OUT ON YOUR DATE."

"KATHY, GO DOWN AND SPEAK TO

THE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY ABOUT

YOUR PAPERWORK."

AREN'T THESE THINGS THAT RUN

THROUGH YOUR MIND WHILE YOU'RE

READING THIS NOVEL?

YOU SAY, WELL, IT'S HARD TO

FEEL SORRY FOR HER BECAUSE SHE

DOESN'T FOLLOW THE PROPER

PROTOCOL.

AND YOU WANT TO KNOW

SOMETHING?

TO

AGREE WITH YOU.

BUT DUBUS GIVES US A CHARACTER

WHO IS DYSFUNCTIONAL.

THIS IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL

PERSON, IS SHE?

YES, NO?

I ASK A COUPLE PEOPLE DOING

THIS.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ THAT

BUT I GUESS IT'S A NICE MOVE.

THIS CHARACTER WE GET TO KNOW

AS KATHY IS A VERY EMOTIONALLY

ABANDONED INDIVIDUAL.

I THINK THAT'S SAFE TO SAY.

THE OTHER THING WE FIND OUT

ABOUT HER IS SHE DOESN'T HAVE

MUCH FIGHT LEFT IN HER.

SHE ALSO HAS INTENSE,

INTENSE-- AND I EMPHASIZE

INTENSE, CHEMICAL ADDICTION

PROBLEMS.

NOW I'M GOING TO TELL YOU

EXACTLY HOW I SEE THIS AND HOW

IT RELATES TO MY CITY JOB.

THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE-- I

KNOW THIS IS HARD TO BELIEVE--

THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE

THAT DRINK AND DO OKAY, THAT

DRINK AND DON'T DO OKAY, AND

PEOPLE THAT DRINK THAT

SHOULDN'T DRINK AT ALL.

AND YOU CAN EXTEND THAT TO

CRACK COCAINE, HEROIN AND ALL

KINDS OF OTHER ASSORTED DRUG

USE, INCLUDING ROBOTRIPPING, I

GUESS, SPEEDBALLING, ECSTASY

AND THE LIKE, OKAY?

WE HAVE A CHARACTER HERE WHO

DUBUS CREATES THAT OBVIOUSLY

HAS SOME ISSUES.

THAT DRINK FOR HER IS REALLY A

CONDUIT FOR EVERYTHING GOING

DOWNHILL.

THINGS AREN'T GOING SO WELL

FOR THIS CHARACTER.

YOU SAY, GEE, AGAIN, SHE

SHOULD HAVE OPENED HER MAIL.

SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN

PREVENTATIVE.

THIS IS AN EMOTIONALLY SCARRED

CHARACTER.

THE ONE THING I FEEL, I DON'T

KNOW, LIKE I WISH-- YOU KNOW,

IF I HAD A WISH LIST FOR

DUBUS, MAYBE I'D WISH THAT HE

HAS DELVED INTO KATHY'S

CHILDHOOD A LITTLE MORE AND

CREATED MORE OF THIS IN THE

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE

I HAVE A FEELING THAT DUBUS

CRAFTED KATHY AFTER MANY

PEOPLE THAT HE HAD MET ON THE

ROAD.

SO YOU SAY, WELL, HOW-- HOW IS

THAT POSSIBLE?

I'VE NEVER MET ANYBODY LIKE

THIS.

AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU

SOMETHING: THERE'S A LITTLE

BIT OF KATHY IN ALL OF US, AND

THAT'S A VERY BROAD STATEMENT.

I FEEL VERY SYMPATHETIC

TOWARDS KATHY, THE CHARACTER.

I'LL TELL YOU WHY.

AT MY CITY JOB, I WORK WITH

PEOPLE WHO BY AND LARGE ARE

VERY GOOD PEOPLE, AND THEY

HAVE DRUG ISSUES, DRUG HABITS,

ALCOHOL HABITS THAT PUT THEM

IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY'RE

REALLY NOT FUNCTIONING THEIR

BEST.

MAYBE THEY CAN'T MAKE THE BEST

DECISIONS WITHOUT THEIR

PERSONAL ACTIVITIES OF DAILY

LIVING; THEY CAN'T HOLD JOBS;

THEY HAVE VERY VIOLENT

RELATIONSHIPS.

SOMETIMES THEY HAVE VERY

FREQUENT RELATIONSHIPS.

THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE

LONGEVITY IN ANYTHING, AND

TRADITIONALLY SPEAKING THEY

USUALLY LOSE THEIR HOME OR

APARTMENT AT SOME TIME.

SO A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, WELL,

WHY ARE PEOPLE HOMELESS?

WHY DO PEOPLE GO FROM JOB TO

JOB?

WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE FAILED

RELATIONSHIPS?

THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG

WITH THEIR BUDGET SKILLS.

NO, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH

THEIR BUDGET SKILLS.

THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG

WITH THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE

RELATIONSHIPS.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO FILL IN THE

BLANK FOR THEM, AND QUITE

FRANKLY, WHEN A PERSON OR

PEOPLE HAVE DRUG AND ALCOHOL

ISSUES, THAT TENDS TO PERMEATE

EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR LIFE,

WHETHER THEY'RE DRINKING OR

SOMETHING THAT WE CALL A DRY

DRUNK.

ANYBODY EVER HEAR THAT, A DRY

DRUNK?

A DRY DRUNK, AND YOU CAN APPLY

THIS TO DRUG ADDICTS AS WELL

IF YOU WISH, A DRY DRUNK IS

SOMEBODY WHO ISN'T DRINKING

BUT HAS WHAT WE CALL THE

BEHAVIORS.

THE BEHAVIORS MEANING THAT

YOU'RE STILL THINKING AS IF

YOU WERE DRINKING.

SO THEY CALL IT STUPID

THINKING FROM DRINKING.

THAT'S ONE OF THE LITTLE CUTIE

SAYINGS THEY HAVE IN 12-STEP

PROGRAMS.

BUT IT REALLY IS TRUE, YOU

KNOW.

AND VERY OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE

FUNCTIONING, YOU KNOW, IN A

CAPACITY THAT IS LIKE SAND AND

FOG, WHERE THEY DON'T REALLY

HAVE A VERY GOOD FOOTING, THEY

HAVE EMOTIONAL ISSUES,

ABANDONMENT ISSUES.

PEOPLE DRINK FOR REASONS,

OKAY?

AND USUALLY THEIR REASONS ARE

A LOT LARGER THAN MOST OF US

THINK.

I MEAN JUST THINK ABOUT IT FOR

A MOMENT, WHY IT IS THAT YOU

THINK PEOPLE ARE DRINKING AND

DRUGGING.

YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO OFFER

UP ANYTHING OUT LOUD.

JUST THINK FOR A MOMENT WHY

YOU THINK THAT IS.

IS IT BECAUSE THEY'RE BORED TO

DEATH?

MAYBE IF THEY'RE REALLY YOUNG,

THEY'RE BORED TO DEATH.

YOU GET SOMEBODY MY AGE,

SOMEBODY OLDER.

WHY ARE THEY DOING ALL THESE

BEHAVIORS?

BECAUSE IT'S EASIER TO TAKE

SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, AND TO

SAY, WELL, THIS IS THE ELIXIR.

I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE THIS

DRINK.

I'M GOING TO BE ALL FIXED.

I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER

DRINK AFTER THIS AND SO ON AND

SO FORTH.

MY COLLEAGUE, SUZIE BRISTOL

OVER HERE CAME WITH ME TONIGHT

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES I

THINK THE TWO OF US TAKE FOR

GRANTED A LOT OF THE

ACTIVITIES THAT WE DO DOWN AT

THE CENTER AND YOU HAVE THE

BROCHURE.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT COME IN,

AND THIS IS NOT-- NO KIDDING

YOU, THAT ONCE HAD JOBS AT

KODAK, YOU KNOW THE BIG YELLOW

BOX IN ROCHESTER, NEW YORK.

THEY ONCE HAD JOBS AT KODAK.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE YARD THAT

THEY USED TO HAVE.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE CARS THEY

USED TO HAVE, AND YOU LOOK AT

THESE PEOPLE, GOD BLESS THEIR

HEARTS.

YOU LOOK AT THEM AND YOU SAY I

CAN'T BELIEVE THIS.

AND THEN THEY TELL YOU WHAT

KIND OF JOBS THEY HAD.

SOME PEOPLE HAD LINE

PRODUCTION JOBS.

SOME PEOPLE HAD MAIL ROOM

JOBS.

SOME PEOPLE HAD, YOU KNOW,

JOBS THAT REQUIRED COLLEGE

EDUCATION AND SO ON AND SO

FORTH, POST GRADUATE WORK.

AND THEY COME INTO OUR CENTER

AS IS.

IF THEY COME IN THE MORNING

IT'S REALLY DISAPPOINTING

BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN UP ALL

NIGHT DRUGGING AND DRINKING.

SO WE DON'T SEE THEM AT THEIR

BEST.

WE SEE THEM WHEN THEY'RE AT

THEIR WORST.

WE HAVE ONE CLIENT-- I'LL TELL

HER FIRST NAME.

HER FIRST NAME IS SANDY, AND I

SEE A LOT OF KATHY IN SANDY.

SANDY IS A CLIENT WHO'S ABOUT

MY AGE, 40, 41 YEARS OLD, HAD

A HOUSE, HAD THIS AMERICAN

DREAM, RIGHT?

A JOB, WHICH IS PART OF THE

AMERICAN DREAM.

ALL OF US PRETTY MUCH WANT TO

WORK, I THINK, AND FEEL

SUCCESSFUL AND FEEL THEY'VE

COMPLETED THINGS AND THAT THEY

CAN PROCURE THINGS.

SHE COMES IN.

SHE'S ABOUT FIVE-FOOT-FIVE, 80

POUNDS, 90 POUNDS MAYBE,

CRACKED OUT LIKE YOU CAN'T

BELIEVE.

VERY OFTEN SHE COMES IN AND

HER EYES LOOK LIKE TWO

PEPPERONIS.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY I CAN

DESCRIBE IT FOR YOU IN

CLINICAL TERMS IS TWO

PEPPERONIS.

AND I'LL SAY "OH, SANDY, HOW

ARE YOU?"

OH, IT WAS A VERY ROUGH NIGHT.

SHE GOT RAINED ON 150 TIMES

AND SO ON AND SO FOR.

I'LL SAY "WOULD YOU LIKE

SOMETHING TO EAT?"

AND SHE'S TINY LITTLE SKELETON

FRAME, WHICH WE CALL SHE'S ON

THE STEM-FAST DIET.

YOU KNOW HOW YOU HAVE THE SLIM

FAST DIET.

WHEN YOU SMOKE CRACK, WE CALL

TO THE CRACK-- THE STEM FAST

DIET.

SHE GETS THINNER EVERY TIME WE

SEE HER SO WE FILL HER UP WITH

FOOD.

NOW I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN HER TO

TAKE AN AIDS TEST, BUT I CAN

TELL YOU, SUZIE CAN TELL YOU,

YOU CAN SEE THAT SHE HAS THE

ADVANCED STAGES OF AIDS.

SHE'S JUST COVERED HEAD TO TOE

IN ALL KINDS OF LESIONS AND

SHE HAS SOME OTHER SYMPTOMS,

WHICH I'M NOT GOING TO GET

INTO RIGHT NOW, BUT CERTAINLY

IF YOU WANT TO ASK, I'LL SHARE

THEM WITH YOU.

IT'S PRETTY GORY.

AND QUITE FRANKLY YOU LOOK AT

THIS PERSON AND SHE'S

SOMEBODY'S MOTHER.

SHE HAS CHILDREN, SO OBVIOUSLY

HER CHILDREN ARE ABOUT YOUR

AGE, AND SHE'S SOMEBODY'S

DAUGHTER.

VERY MUCH LIKE KATHY.

AND YOU SAY HOW DID THIS

PERSON GET LIKE THIS?

WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE EMOTIONAL

PROBLEMS, WHEN YOU HAVE

ABANDONMENT PROBLEMS, WHEN YOU

HAVE ISSUES WITH UNSUCCESSFUL

RELATIONSHIPS, WHEN YOU HAVE

THINGS THAT YOU DON'T DEAL

WITH, ON TOP OF LOSING A JOB,

ON TOP OF MAYBE LOSING PLANS

THAT YOU HAD FOR THE FUTURE,

THAT'S HOW SOMEBODY LIKE SANDY

WINDS UP LIVING IN THE STREET.

WE HAVE ANOTHER CLIENT,

LESTER, HE'S A DOLL.

HE'S ONE OF THE NICEST PEOPLE

YOU'D EVER WANT TO MEET, A

DRINKER LIKE YOU COULD NOT

BELIEVE.

I SAID TO HIM ONE DAY WHEN HE

HAD A MOMENT OF CLARITY, WHICH

MEANS IN DRINKER TALK WHEN HE

HAD HIS SOBRIETY FOR A FEW

HOURS.

I SAID, LESTER, WHY ARE YOU

OUT THERE DRINKING?

HE WAS UNDERNEATH A BRIDGE--

THIS IS NO KIDDING YOU.

HE WAS UNDERNEATH SOMETHING

CALLED THE DRIVING PARK

BRIDGE.

IT'S AN AREA OF ROCHESTER-- IF

ANYBODY WANTS TO COME VISIT ME

AT THE CENTER, I'LL TAKE YOU

DOWN THERE.

JUST DON'T WEAR OPEN-TOED

SHOES.

THERE'S LOTS OF BROKEN GLASS.

I SAY TO LESTER WOULDN'T IT BE

EASIER TO GET AN APARTMENT?

WOULDN'T BE IT BE EASIER TO

GET A JOB?

YOU LIVE FROM DAY TO DAY IN

GARBAGE CANS.

YOU KNOW WHAT HE TELLS ME?

I DON'T WANT THE

RESPONSIBILITY.

I'M EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE AND I

CAN'T HAVE THAT

RESPONSIBILITY.

SO HE'D RATHER LIVE IN THE

STREETS.

ANOTHER ASPECT OF KATHY THAT I

THINK ABOUT FROM MY CITY JOB,

WE HAD A CLIENT WHO WAS IN HER

50s CAME TO US, ALL IN A

DITHER.

YOU HAVE TO PICTURE THIS.

SHE COMES IN AND SHE SAYS "IN

SIX DAYS I'M GOING TO BE

HOMELESS."

LISTEN, IF I WAS GOING TO BE

HOMELESS IN SIX DAYS, I'D BE

RATHER UPSET, TOO.

WE READ THIS IN "HOUSE OF SAND

AND FOG," RIGHT?

QUICK EVICTION, RIGHT?

SO MY CONCERN IS WHERE ARE YOU

GOING TO LIVE?

THERE'S FOUR SHELTERS THAT

COULD TAKE YOU.

AND I'M TRYING TO HAVE THIS

DISCUSSION WITH HER ABOUT

WHERE IS THE ROOF GOING TO BE

THAT EVENING WHEN YOU'RE

EVICTED?

SHE SAYS TO ME "I DON'T LIKE

THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND I DON'T

LIKE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD."

AND THEN SHE LAYS A BOMB ON US

THAT SHE HAS TWO CATS.

NOW NO HOMELESS SHELTER IS

GOING TO TAKE A HOMELESS

PERSON WITH TWO CATS.

IT'S NOT THAT THE HOMELESS

SHELTERS HAVE SOMETHING OUT

AGAINST FELINES.

THEY JUST AREN'T EQUIPPED FOR

THAT.

THE JOB THAT A HOMELESS

SHELTER HAS BY AND LARGE IS TO

PROVIDE SHELTER FOR PEOPLE.

SO MY COLLEAGUE SUZIE-- GIVE

US A LITTLE WAVE, SUZIE.

MY COLLEAGUE AND I WENT

THROUGH ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT

STEPS FOR HER.

WE WERE ABLE TO GET HER

PLACEMENT AND SO ON AND SO

FORTH.

AND THEN I HAD TO GO AND

FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THE

CAT.

YOU KNOW WHAT THIS REMINDED ME

OF?

REMEMBER WHEN KATHY PUT ALL

HER STUFF IN STORAGE, AND

MAYBE SOME OF YOU THOUGHT, IN

READING THE NOVEL, WHY DID

ANDRE DUBUS GIVE US A

CHARACTER THAT IS SPENDING ALL

THIS TIME SLEEPING IN A CAR

AND HANGING OUT WITH HIS STUFF

IN A STORAGE SHED?!

ANYBODY THINK ABOUT THAT?

SOME OF YOU ARE SHAKING YOUR

HEADS YES.

I'M GOING TO TELL YOU WHY.

BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE HAVE LOST

EVERYTHING, SOMETIMES THEIR

POSSESSIONS ARE THE ONLY THING

THAT THEY HAVE LEFT.

THIS WOMAN THAT CAME TO US

WITH THIS BUSINESS WITH THE

TWO CATS, SHE TOLD ME.

SHE TOLD ME FLAT OUT.

SHE SAID, "JENNIFER, I'M SURE

WHAT YOU DO WITH ME, I AM NOT

GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL I HAVE

HOUSING FOR THE TWO CATS."

SO, YOU KNOW, AT THAT MOMENT I

DECIDED OKAY, I NEED SOME-- I

THINK I GROVELED AT SUZIE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ENOUGH TO PLACE

A PERSON.

BUT I GUESS WHAT I HAD TO

UNDERSTAND AND I REALLY HAD TO

TAKE THAT MOMENT IS THAT IT

REALLY WASN'T ONLY THE TWO

CATS; WHAT SHE WAS REALLY

SAYING TO ME WAS THIS IS ALL

THAT I HAVE LEFT AND I CANNOT

LOSE THIS.

I CANNOT LOSE THIS.

SO WE HAD TO CALL UP LOLLIPOP

FARMS.

IT SEEMS AN INTERESTING POINT

THAT IN ROCHESTER, NEW YORK

IT'S EASIER TO FIND HOUSING

FOR TWO CATS TEMPORARILY THAN

IT IS FOR A HUMAN BEING,

BECAUSE LOLLIPOP FARMS SAID,

"OH, WE'LL TAKE THE TWO CATS

FOR 7 DAYS AND THEN AFTER THE

7 DAYS IT'S $20 PER CAT."

YOU CAN'T EVEN BOARD A HUMAN

BEING FOR $20 A DAY.

SO I SAID TO HER, "WELL, WE

CAN BOARD THE CATS AT LOLLIPOP

FARMS FOR 7 DAYS.

THEY'LL WRITE IT OFF.

WE'LL SEND YOU TO A HOMELESS

SHELTER," AND SO ON AND SO

FORTH WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT

WE DID.

SO THE THING WAS SHE WAS

ADAMANT, ADAMANT THAT SHE HAD

TO HAVE SOME OF HER THINGS.

SO YOU SAY WHY IS KATHY

RUNNING TO THIS STORAGE SHED?

WHY ISN'T SHE DEALING WITH THE

BIGGER PICTURE?

BECAUSE I THINK ANDRE DUBUS

GIVES US A CHARACTER THAT

JUST-- THAT THIS HOUSE ISN'T

ONLY ABOUT A HOUSE.

WE KNOW HOW SHE GOT THE HOUSE.

ANYBODY RECALL HOW IT IS THAT

SHE ACQUIRED THIS HOUSE?

COME ON.

WHERE ARE MY LIVELY PEOPLE?

YOU WILL WIN ONE GLASS OF

WATER WITH A LOVELY DOILY.

PARDON ME?

>> HER FATHER'S HOUSE.

>> EXCELLENT.

THERE YOU GO.

YAY!

GIVE HIM A LITTLE HAND.

WE HAVE TO LIVEN THIS UP A

LITTLE BIT.

IT'S ONLY WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

THERE YOU GO.

YOU MAY HAVE THIS GLASS OF

WATER WITH THIS PREMIER DOILY.

OKAY.

WE'VE GOT MORE.

DON'T WORRY.

CALM DOWN.

NO REASON TO THREATEN DEATH TO

HIM.

YOU CAN HAVE SOME, TOO.

SO WE KNOW THAT WITH THIS IDEA

OF THE AMERICAN DREAM, WE KNOW

WHAT THE IDEA OF LARGER ISSUES

AND WHY SHE'S SPENDING ALL

THIS TIME WORRYING ABOUT

STORING HER STUFF.

THIS HOUSE, WHICH IS ACQUIRED

AND LEFT TO HER THROUGH HER

FATHER, IT HAS EMOTION; IT HAS

FEELING.

IT'S NOT JUST A SUMMER RENTAL.

AND PERHAPS-- I DON'T KNOW FOR

SURE BECAUSE I CAN'T SPEAK FOR

THE AUTHOR.

I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT MY

TAKE IS ON IT.

PERHAPS THE FACT THAT THIS

CHARACTER IS CREATED IN SUCH A

FASHION THAT SHE DOESN'T DEAL

WITH THE HOUSE AS THE LARGER

PIECE IN THE VERY BEGINNING--

YOU KNOW, DOESN'T WANT TO

ANSWER THE MAIL AND ALL THIS

BUSINESS.

PERHAPS THE HOUSE IS A

REMINDER OF FAILED

RELATIONSHIPS.

WE KNOW THAT HER HUSBAND

LEAVES.

WE KNOW THAT SHE DOESN'T HAVE

THE ALLIANCES THAT SHE WISHED

SHE HAD WITH HER FAMILY, YOU

KNOW.

WE FIND SHE DOESN'T HAVE THOSE

NECESSARY RELATIONSHIPS.

A HOUSE IS A NICE RELATIONSHIP

IN A WAY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T

TALK BACK, YOU KNOW.

VERY INTERESTING, THE WHOLE

DYNAMIC WITH THIS CHARACTER.

ANOTHER THING I FIND SO

INTERESTING, PEOPLE SAY TO ME

ALL THE TIME: WHAT ARE

PROSTITUTES LIKE?

THAT MUST BE LIKE THE FIRST

QUESTION SUZIE AND I FIELD IF

WE GO SOMEPLACE.

WHAT ARE THOSE HOOKERS LIKE?

I TELL THEM ROUND UP 20 RANDOM

PEOPLE, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO

GET?

IF I TOOK 20 RANDOM PEOPLE OUT

OF THIS ROOM, I'M GOING TO GET

SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE COMPUTER

SCIENCE PEOPLE, SOME PEOPLE

THAT ARE ART PEOPLE.

THERE ARE SOME DEMOCRATS, SOME

REPUBLICANS, RIGHT?

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE

FOR-- THE PEOPLE FOR THE PARTY

OF POWER OR WHATEVER IT IS.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT

LIKE GRUNGE PEOPLE AND SO ON

AND SO FORTH.

SOME PEOPLE THAT LIKE

McDONALD'S, SOME LIKE WENDY'S.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS IS THAT

THEY'RE EVERYDAY PEOPLE.

YOU ROUND UP 20 RANDOM

PROSTITUTES-- I HAD ONE

PROSTITUTE THAT GETS VERY

POLITICAL WITH ME ON LYELL

AVENUE.

SHE WANTS TO KNOW WHO I VOTED

FOR, DO I UNDERSTAND THE

ISSUES?

THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS, YOU

KNOW.

AND THEN YOU GET SOME THAT ARE

JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE.

YOU COULD JUST ABOUT PASS OUT

IN THE STREET AND THEY'D WALK

OVER YOU, YOU KNOW.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

AGAIN I SEE A LOT OF MY

CLIENTS IN THE CHARACTER

FASHIONED AS KATHY.

PEOPLE THAT ARE UNABLE TO MAKE

DECISIONS.

PEOPLE THAT SEEM TO BE, OH, I

DON'T KNOW, WHAT'S A NICE WAY

TO PUT IT?

PEOPLE THAT IN A SENSE NEED TO

BE TAKEN CARE OF.

ANOTHER THING THAT I THINK IS

SORT OF INTERESTING IS THAT

THIS PARTICULAR NOVEL BRINGS

US SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS

CLOSE TO THE TRUTH, AND I'M

NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, IN A

CRITICAL MANNER.

I DON'T MEAN IT THAT WAY AT

ALL.

TRULY NAUGHTY, LESTER'S WIFE,

KATHY, ARE ALL LIVING

UNDERNEATH THE ARCHES-- I

DON'T MEAN THE GOLDEN ARCHES--

THE ARCHES OF A PATRIARCHAL

SOCIETY.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE

COLONEL?

HE'S THE HEAD OF THE

HOUSEHOLD, YOU KNOW.

WHAT HE SAYS GOES.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING HOW SHE,

YOU KNOW, STEPS UP TO THAT.

I FIND IT EQUALLY INTERESTING

THAT LESTER COMES INTO THE

PICTURE AND HE STARTS CALLING

SHOTS, DOESN'T HE?

IT'S LIKE EVERYBODY HAS TO

SAVE THE WOMEN.

I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S

ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

I LIKE A LITTLE SAVING EVERY

NOW AND THEN.

BUT EVERYBODY HAS TO SAVE THE

WOMEN.

EVERYBODY HAS TO PROTECT THE

WOMEN.

NOW I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF

YOU SAW THE FILM VERSION OF

"HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG."

WHO DID IN HERE?

THAT'S OKAY.

OKAY.

WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT WAS SO

INTERESTING?

AND I'M NOT JUST SPEAKING TO

YOU, BUT I'M GOING TO DIRECT

THIS TO YOU.

IN THE VERY BEGINNING, WHEN

KATHY'S GOING THROUGH THIS

WHOLE EVICTION ISSUE, IF YOU

REMEMBER THE VERY BEGINNING,

IT WAS ALL MEN THAT FLOODED

THIS LITTLE BUNGALOW.

THERE WASN'T ONE WOMAN TO BE

FOUND.

AND THERE WAS A LINE IN THERE

THAT BOTHERED ME AND I'M GOING

TO TELL YOU WHAT THE LINE IS.

NO, HAVE YOU TO GUESS.

OF COURSE I'M GOING TO TELL

YOU WHAT THE LINE IS.

THE LINE WAS WHERE THE ONE--

I'M QUOTING VERBATIM, BY THE

WAY.

THE FELLOW SAID "WELL, I'VE

DONE WHAT I CAME TO DO "AND

THIS IS WHERE I GET OFF."

DO YOU REMEMBER THAT LINE?

HE SAID "THIS IS WHERE I GET

OFF" AND I PUT THAT ON STAT.

I WENT TO REWIND, PRESS PLAY.

I KNOW MY STUDENT HERE KATIE'S

WONDERING.

SHE DID ALL THAT TECHNOLOGY

AND SO QUICKLY.

I DESCRIBE IT A LOT BETTER

THAN I ACTUALLY DO IT.

AND I WENT BACK TO IT, AND

JUST THE WAY THAT IT WAS

WORDED "THIS IS WHERE I GET

OFF," CAN YOU IMAGINE WHERE

I'M THINKING TO MYSELF THAT IT

WAS IN A STRANGE WAY IT WASN'T

ONLY THE CONTENT; IT WAS HOW

IT WAS DELIVERED.

IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS SO

STRANGE, BUT IF THOSE LINES

WERE DELIVERED BY A FEMALE

CHARACTER, I WOULDN'T HAVE

PERCEIVED IT THE WAY THAT I

PERCEIVED IT.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

DO YOU REMEMBER THAT

PARTICULAR LINE?

SEE I'M REALLY A NEAT

NIGHTMARE TO WATCH A MOVIE

WITH.

I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO

PICKS ONE LINE OUT THEN HAS TO

HAVE ONE WHOLE DISCUSSION

BASED ON ONE LINE.

BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING TO

YOU, "HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG"

HAS A LOT OF ISSUES.

AGAIN THIS IDEA THAT YOU NEED

TO BE TAKEN CARE OF, YOU KNOW.

HERE WE HAVE LESTER, YOU KNOW.

NOT ONLY DOES HE HAVE POWER;

HE HAS A GUN.

HE HAS A BADGE.

HE HAS AUTHORITY.

AND IN A STRANGE WAY, THE

COLONEL'S VERY SIMILAR TO HIM.

HE SPEAKS WITH A SENSE OF

AUTHORITY.

CERTAINLY HE BASICALLY SHOVES

KATHY HERE AND THERE AND TALKS

TO HER LIKE SHE'S GARBAGE.

HE REALLY DOESN'T RESPECT HER.

HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN HER

ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW.

SO IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAVE

HAPPENED IF DUBUS CRAFTED A

SINCERELY SYMPATHETIC MALE IN

THIS WHOLE THING.

I'D LIKE TO THINK OF LESTER

THAT WAY, BUT ACTUALLY LESTER

IS REALLY RUNNING FROM HIS OWN

PROBLEMS AND TRYING TO SEEK

SOLUTIONS WITH KATHY.

I MEAN WHAT A-- WHAT A-- YOU

KNOW, A CANDIDATE.

BUT IT IS SORT OF INTERESTING

THAT WE HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S

SUPPOSED TO BE IN POWER,

THAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE

AUTHORITY, SUPPOSED TO HAVE

ALL THE ANSWERS AND HE'S

LOOKING TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS

SEVERE ALCOHOL PROBLEMS TO

SOLVE HIS QUANDARY.

BECAUSE THEN WHAT DOES HE DO?

HE LOOKS TO BECOME HOMELESS,

TOO.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE A

ROMANTICIZED VIEW OF

HOMELESSNESS.

DO YOU REMEMBER IN SOME OF THE

PASSAGES OF "HOUSE OF SAND AND

FOG"?

SHE'S SLEEPING UP IN THE

LITTLE CABIN.

IT ALL SEEMS SO NEWLYWED IN A

WAY, DOESN'T IT?

SHE'S WAITING FOR HIM TO COME

HOME.

HE'S GOING TO DRIVE THE BIG

TRUCK HOME WITH HIS BADGE.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

HOMELESSNESS IS A VERY

STRESSFUL SITUATION.

ANYBODY IN HERE EVER BEEN

HOMELESS?

I KNOW.

SOMETIMES BEING IN A DORM

FEELS THAT WAY, YOU KNOW.

BUT ANYBODY IN HERE SINCERELY

EVER BEEN HOMELESS?

FOR A PERIOD OF MY LIFE, WHICH

I'M NOT GOING TO DISCUSS, IT'S

PROBABLY MUCH MORE INTERESTING

THAN MY CHAT THAT I JUST GAVE

YOU, BUT FOR A PERIOD OF MY

LIFE I LIVED IN SOMETHING

CALLED THE BARRACK STREET

WOMEN'S SHELTER, WHICH IS

PROBABLY WHY I'M VERY DRIVEN

TO DO THIS KIND OF WORK.

AND I OFTEN LISTEN TO PEOPLE

AND PEOPLE WILL SAY THINGS

LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, SHE'S

THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT WOULD

BE HOMELESS, AND I SORT OF--

YOU KNOW, MY LITTLE EARS GO UP

EVERY NOW AND THEN.

I SAY TO MYSELF WHAT TYPE

WOULD THAT BE?

SOMEBODY THAT TEACHES AT RIT,

THAT HAS A JOB IN THE CITY OF

ROCHESTER, THAT HAS A FAMILY

AND SO ON AND SO FORTH?

BY THE WAY I VOTE DEMOCRAT.

YOU KNOW, I'M A HUMAN BEING,

TOO.

I OFTEN THINK OF ALL OF THE

STRUGGLES THAT PEOPLE THAT

LIVE IN HOMELESS SHELTERS GO

THROUGH BECAUSE IT SEEMS

THERE'S THIS GENERAL

PHILOSOPHY OUT THERE THAT

PEOPLE ARE HOMELESS, WE HEAR

THIS ALL THE TIME, BECAUSE

THEY WANT TO BE.

I'M GOING TO TELL YOU

SOMETHING.

MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE HOMELESS

DON'T WANT TO BE.

THEY'D LIKE TO BE SOMEPLACE.

THEY'D LIKE TO HAVE AN

AFFILIATION AND I LIVED IN THE

BARRACK STREET WOMEN'S SHELTER

FOR A VERY BRIEF PERIOD OF

TIME UNTIL I WAS ABLE TO

TRANSITION INTO MY ADULT LIFE.

I HAD A VERY TRAUMATIC

CIRCUMSTANCE HAPPEN TO ME WHEN

I WAS ABOUT-- OH, ABOUT YOUR

AGE, AND IT CAUSED ME TO

REALLY BE IN BETWEEN THINGS.

AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU

SOMETHING.

IT'S REALLY ANOTHER WAY OF

LIVING, AND IT-- IT'S REALLY

ALSO A WAY OF EXISTING, AND

IT'S SOMETIMES VERY DIFFICULT.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BECOME

RED-LINED.

ANYBODY FAMILIAR WITH THE

PHRASE "RED-LINED"?

WELL, LET'S SAY IF YOU COME

FROM A PARTICULAR ADDRESS IN

ROCHESTER, NEW YORK AND

EVERYBODY-- AN EMPLOYER KNOWS

THAT'S A HOMELESS SHELTER,

YOUR PROBABILITY OF GETTING

HIRED IS, OH, ABOUT THIS BIG.

BECAUSE ALONG WITH A RED-LINED

ADDRESS, PEOPLE SORT OF HAVE

THESE THEORIES, JEEZ, THIS

PERSON MUST BE HOMELESS

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY GO TO

THE O.T.B.

THIS PERSON MUST BE HOMELESS

BECAUSE THEY'RE A BANK ROBBER,

YOU KNOW AND SO ON AND SO

FORTH.

VERY GOOD PEOPLE WIND UP IN

VERY PECULIAR SITUATIONS,

WHICH IS WHAT I ALWAYS TELL

PEOPLE.

I HAVE A LOT OF SYMPATHY FOR

THIS CHARACTER WE GET TO KNOW

AS KATHY BECAUSE SHE'S TRULY

STRUGGLING, YOU KNOW,

STRUGGLING ON AN EMOTIONAL AND

INTELLECTUAL OR PHILOSOPHICAL

LEVEL, A VALIDATION LEVEL.

LOOK, EVERYBODY IN HERE HAS

ONE THING IN COMMON, INCLUDING

ME WITH EVERYONE.

YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?

WE'RE ALL CHILDREN.

NO MATTER WHAT AGE YOU ARE, I

DON'T CARE HOW OLD YOU ARE,

YOU WANT SOME VALIDATION FROM

A PARENT OR PARENTS.

YOU WANT SOMEBODY WHO'S OLDER

THAN YOU THAT SHARES A SIMILAR

BLOOD LINE TO SAY, GEE, I'M

HERE IF YOU NEED ME.

GEE, I KNOW THINGS ARE TOUGH

AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

VERY OFTEN PEOPLE THAT ARE

HOMELESS DON'T HAVE THESE

FAMILY SUPPORT SYSTEMS BECAUSE

AS WE ALL KNOW FAMILIES ARE

COMPLEX SYSTEMS.

THEY ADD COMPLEXITY.

PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT

PERSONALITIES.

EVEN ONE FAMILY CAN HAVE

DIFFERENT VALUE SYSTEMS.

IN MY CAREER, I'M SORRY TO SAY

THIS-- I'M ALMOST ASHAMED-- I

HAVE CLIENTS-- WE HAVE CLIENTS

THAT HAVE AIDS AND H.I.V. THAT

AREN'T ALLOWED IN THEIR

FAMILIES' HOMES FOR HOLIDAYS.

I SAY ALL THE TIME, IT'S ONLY

A DISEASE.

IT'S NOT A DISGRACE.

WE HEAR TIME AFTER TIME

FAMILIES THAT HAVE TURNED AWAY

FROM THEIR CHILDREN-- AGAIN,

THEY ALL HAVE THAT IN COMMON,

FROM THEIR CHILDREN, NO MATTER

WHAT AGE, THAT HAVE H.

I.V. AND THEY SAY, AH, I'M NOT

DEALING WITH THAT.

YOU CAN'T PICK AND CHOOSE YOUR

DISEASE SOMETIMES.

YOU CAN'T.

WE HAVE FAMILIES THAT WE--

VERY OFTEN I SAY-- VERY YOUNG

PEOPLE, WE HAVE 18, 19 YEARS

OLD COME.

I SAY "WHERE ARE YOUR

PARENTS?"

"WELL, I DON'T KNOW."

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU DON'T

KNOW?"

"WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

WHEN I WAS 18, THEY DECIDED TO

MOVE."

HOW CAN SOMEBODY 18, 19 BE

HOMELESS?

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOUR

PARENTS PACK UP AND MOVE?

WHERE DO YOU GO?

YOU DON'T GO TO SERVICE IF YOU

DON'T GO AWAY TO COLLEGE.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE FRIENDS THAT

HAVE RESOURCES, WHERE DO YOU

GO?

THERE'S A WHOLE POPULATION IN

ROCHESTER, NEW YORK, AS WELL

AS MANY OTHER URBAN AREAS OF

PEOPLE YOUR AGE THAT ARE

LIVING EITHER IN THE STREET OR

THEY'RE LIVING AT THE OPEN

DOOR MISSION.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE MY WORD

FOR THIS.

COME OUT WITH ME SOMETIME.

I'LL SHOW YOU.

PROSTITUTES, THE AVERAGE AGE

FOR PROSTITUTES NOW-- IT'S TWO

RANGES.

>> IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

IT'S EITHER 17 TO 18 AND A

HALF, ACCORDING TO THE WORLD

HEALTH ORGANIZATION OF

PROSTITUTES IN ROCHESTER, AND

THEN THERE SEEMS TO BE THIS

CADRE OF PROSTITUTES THAT ARE,

I DON'T KNOW, MY AGE AND

OLDER.

EITHER AIDS HASN'T KILLED

THEM, HEPATITIS "B," ARTHUR

SHAWCROSS OR NUMEROUS OTHER

KILLERS, OR MAYBE THEY'VE

SURVIVED THEM.

I DON'T KNOW.

I CAN'T JUDGE.

IT'S SORT OF INTERESTING WHEN

WE TALK ABOUT THIS HOMELESS

COMPONENT.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE-- I HATE TO

BE THE ONE TO SAY THIS, BUT

THIS IS ALSO THE TRUTH.

YOU CAN GET THIS OFF THE NEW

YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF

CORRECTIONS WEB SITE.

NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF

CORRECTIONS, WHICH HAPPENS TO

BE ALL STATE PRISONS-- THIS

DOESN'T GO FOR JAILS BY THE

WAY, ATTICA, ALBION, ORLEANS,

ALL THESE PLACES, SING-SING,

ELMIRA.

DO YOU KNOW THAT NEW YORK

STATE PENAL SYSTEM IS THE

LARGEST MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM

IN THE COUNTRY?

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

THE LARGEST MENTAL HEALTH

SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY.

SO WE SAY DEPARTMENT OF

CORRECTIONS.

WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE

CORRECTING PEOPLE.

WHY ARE THE RECIDIVISM RATE SO

HIGH IF WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE

CORRECTING PEOPLE?

WHY DO THEY KEEP COMING BACK?

IS IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT

TO BE HOMELESS?

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU HAVE SOME PEOPLE THAT SAY

THAT THEY'D RATHER BE

INCARCERATED AND GET THREE

HOTS AND A COT.

THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL IT,

THREE HOT MEALS AND A COT.

BUT MOST PEOPLE WANTS TO BE

SELF-SUFFICIENT PEOPLE OF THE

THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A

LITTLE MAILBOX KEY AND GO TO

THEIR MAIL AND GO TO THEIR

APARTMENT OR THEIR DWELLING,

YOU KNOW, NO MATTER HOW HUMBLE

IT IS.

THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOME.

WHICH JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU

THAT, IN OUR SOCIETY, WE'RE

STILL NOT REALLY ADDRESSING

THE FACT THAT AGAIN PEOPLE

HAVE SEVERE MENTAL HEALTH

ISSUES.

WE SEE THAT IN THIS NOVEL.

THEY HAVE SEVERE CHEMICAL

DEPENDENCY ISSUES.

WHEN WE START TO ADDRESS THOSE

THINGS, THE RECIDIVISM RATES

WILL BE A LOT LESS.

PEOPLE SAY, OH, WELL, WHEN

PEOPLE GO TO JAIL OR GO TO

PRISON, THAT'S WHEN THEY STOP

USING DRUGS.

YOU WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING?

AND YOU MAY QUOTE ME.

IF YOU WANT DRUGS, THE BEST

PLACE TO GO IS TO JAIL OR TO

PRISON.

THERE'S TONS OF DRUGS.

WE WERE DOING PROGRAMS THERE

AT A PLACE CALLED DAY

REPORTING, WHICH IS 80 MAIN

WEST STREET, WHICH IS THE

DIVISION OF THE NEW YORK STATE

DEPARTMENT OF PAROLE AND

PROBATION.

SUZIE AND I WOULD GO DOWN.

WE'D DO JOB FINDING.

WE DO HOUSING, HOW TO FIND AN

APARTMENT, HOW TO FILL OUT A

JOB APPLICATION, YOU KNOW.

THAT'S CALLED LIFE SKILLS.

WE TAKE IT FOR GRANTED.

NOT EVERYBODY HAS THAT

PREPARATION.

WE GO DOWN THERE.

PEOPLE WOULD GO IN THE

BATHROOM.

THEY'D COME OUT HIGH AS A

KITE.

YOU'D SAY HOW CAN THIS BE?

HOW CAN THEY BE SENTENCED FROM

DRUG COURT, FROM ALL THESE

OTHER COURTS, DOING TIME AND

SO ON AND SO FORTH AND DAY

REPORTING, WHICH IS ANOTHER

WAY OF SAYING DAY JAIL.

YOU GET TO GO HOME AT NIGHT.

AND THEY COME IN HIGH AS A

KITE.

SO, NO, THE ANSWER ISN'T THE

MINUTE THAT YOU COME TO JAIL

OR TO PRISON THAT STOPGAP

ADDICTION, YOU KNOW, IN THE

SENSE THAT YOU JUST LEAVE YOUR

ADDICTION AT THE DOOR.

VERY UNTRUE.

VERY UNTRUE.

BUT I THINK FOR THE MOST PART

WHEN YOU START TO DEAL WITH

WHY IS IT THAT SOMEBODY DRUGS?

WHY IS IT THAT SOMEBODY

DRINKS?

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU SEE A

MUCH LARGER ISSUE.

SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S

PAINFULLY FRIGHTENING, I'M

GOING TO TELL YOU SOMETHING.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT

EMPIRICAL DATA.

I DO NOT HAVE THE SCIENTIFIC

CHARTS TO SHOW YOU.

I HAVE NOT DONE SCIENTIFIC

RESEARCH.

I'M JUST TELLING YOU FROM

BEING OUT ON THE STREET, WHICH

IS WHAT SUZIE AND I DO.

THIS IS A BROAD STATEMENT.

99% OF THE PEOPLE SUZIE AND I

WORK WITH, WHETHER IT'S MEN OR

WOMEN, EITHER SELF REPORT OR

HAVE SUGGESTED THAT THEY'VE

BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED AND IT'S

REALLY QUITE FRIGHTENING.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT

PROSTITUTES AND YOU SAY, OH,

THEY'RE IN THIS BECAUSE OF

DRUGS.

NO.

THAT MIGHT BE A SECONDARY

REASON.

THERE'S A PRIMARY REASON, AND

YOU HAVE TO SORT OF DIG WAY

BACK, YOU KNOW.

WHY IS SOMEBODY DRINKING?

WHY IS SOMEBODY LIVING

UNDERNEATH A BRIDGE, YOU KNOW?

I HAVE TO TELL YOU A FUNNY

STORY.

I HOPE YOU DON'T MIND.

ONE DAY, SOMEBODY CALLED ME

FROM DOWNTOWN AND SAID TO ME

"LESTER IS SUPPOSED TO BE--"

REMEMBER THAT DAY?

HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOWN HERE

TO GET HIS BENEFITS CARD.

THAT'S FOOD STAMPS.

TODAY IT'S ELECTRONIC LIKE AN

A.T.M. MACHINE.

THEY TELL ME, "WHERE'S

LESTER?"

WELL, LESTER'S UNDERNEATH THE

DRIVING PARK BRIDGE.

WELL, NOBODY IN THIS OFFICE

WANTS TO GO THERE.

"OKAY, I'LL GO GET HIM."

I GET INTO MY CAR BECAUSE I

KNOW WHERE LESTER IS AND I'M

DRIVING AROUND LOOKING FOR

LESTER.

I PARK MY VEHICLE.

I'M WALKING QUITE A DISTANCE

INTO A HORRIBLE PARK THAT

ISN'T WELL LIT AND EVERYTHING

ELSE, AND THIS ONE HOMELESS

PERSON WHO I KNOW, I SAY HELLO

TO-- THEY'RE PEOPLE, TOO.

THEY MIGHT HAVE SEVERE MENTAL

HEALTH ISSUES BUT THEY'RE

HUMAN BEINGS AND I SAY, YOU

KNOW, I'M LOOKING FOR LESTER.

OOH, LESTER'S DOWN THE GULLY

BEHIND THE ROCK.

MEANWHILE IT'S LIKE ALL RIGHT.

SOMEBODY SAYS WHERE'S BUILDING

6?

YOU TELL THEM IT'S THE BIG

BRICK BUILDING.

WELL, EVERY BUILDING HERE IS

THE BIG BRICK BUILDING.

OH, THE ROCK DOWN THE BENDS.

THERE'S 5,000 ROCKS.

SO I FIND LESTER IN THE MIDDLE

OF THE SNOW.

NOW YOU HAVE TO PICTURE THIS.

HERE I AM.

I LOOK LIKE I JUST CRAWLED

THROUGH ALASKA TO GET TO

LESTER.

I LOOK LIKE A MESS AND HERE'S

LESTER, CROUCHED AROUND A

LITTLE STERNO.

YOU KNOW WHAT A STERNO IS?

ONE OF THOSE LITTLE CANS THAT

YOU LIGHT ON FIRE AND YOU COOK

THINGS?

AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS

BLIZZARD, THE SNOW ISN'T EVEN

GOING UP AND DOWN, IT'S

SNOWING SIDEWAYS.

I'M LIKE, "LESTER, WE HAVE AN

APPOINTMENT."

I'M THE ONLY ONE WEARING A

WATCH.

HE SAYS, "WELL, I'M IN THE

MIDDLE OF MAKING S'MORES RIGHT

NOW."

HE SAYS, "YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE

TO GIVE ME A FEW MOMENTS."

HE'S MAKING HIS S'MORES.

I'M LIKE, "I DON'T MEAN TO

RUSH THE S'MORES, LESTER, BUT

WE REALLY DO HAVE TO GO."

AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID TO

ME:

"THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

YOU AND I."

I SAID, "WHAT WOULD THAT BE,

YOU LIKE S'MORES AND I DON'T"?

HE SAID, "NO, YOU'RE VERY

ESTABLISHMENT AND I'M VERY

ANTIESTABLISHMENT.

AND IF THEY WANT TO GIVE ME

THE FOOD CARD, THEY'RE OPEN

UNTIL 5:00--"

YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW LESTER

SAID IT, YOU KNOW.

"YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANT TO

GIVE ME THE FOOD CARD, THEY'LL

DO IT ON A SCHEDULE THAT SUITS

MY NEEDS."

I'M THINKING TO MYSELF: I

CAN'T BELIEVE HE'S CARRYING ON

LIKE THIS.

HE'S GETTING A FREE RIDE DOWN

THERE.

HE'S GOING TO GET HIS BENEFITS

CARD.

YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS?

HE LATER CONFIDED IN ME, WHICH

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT THE

TIME, AND I THINK ABOUT THIS

OFTEN.

HE HAS PANIC AND AGORAPHOBIA

PROBLEMS.

ANYBODY KNOW WHAT AGORAPHOBIA

IS?

YOU'RE AFRAID TO GO OUT INTO

THE OPEN.

AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE AFRAID

OF SPACES AND SO ON AND SO

FORTH.

HE TOLD ME, "I DON'T DO WELL

AROUND CROWDS OF PEOPLE AND I

DON'T DO WELL IN SPACES WHERE

I'M NOT SURE WHERE I CAN GET

OUT."

HE SAID, "I START TO GET PANIC

ATTACKS."

AND UNLESS YOU'VE HAD A PANIC

ATTACK IN YOUR LIFE, YOU

HAVEN'T LIVED.

IT FEELS LIKE THE WHOLE ROOM

IS JUST COLLAPSING UPON YOU.

HE SAID, "I JUST CAN'T BEAR TO

GO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY."

SO THAT'S WHAT HE MEANT WHEN

HE TRULY MEANT, YOU KNOW,

YOU'RE ESTABLISHMENT AND I'M

NOT.

I THINK WHAT HE WAS REALLY

TRYING TO TELL ME IS, IN HIS

WORDS, YOU KNOW, I'M A PERSON

WITH A LOT OF MENTAL HEALTH

ISSUES AND I REALLY CAN'T HAVE

THEM COMPROMISED FOR A $130

FOOD CARD.

VERY INTERESTING.

IT'S SAD BUT IT'S INTERESTING

WORK, YOU KNOW.

WHAT MAKES ME VERY SAD IS WHEN

I HAVE HOMELESS WOMEN AND MEN

IN PRISON OR IN JAIL, AND THEY

KEEP REFERRING TO JAIL AS

HOME.

CAN YOU IMAGINE?

I REMEMBER ONE DAY, I SAID TO

SUZIE, I CAME BACK OH,

SO-AND-SO'S BACK IN JAIL

AGAIN.

YOU KNOW IT'S VERY DEPRESSING

BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU MADE

HEADWAY WITH THIS PERSON AND

THEN YOU SEE ANOTHER CLIENT

AND YOU SEE SO AND SO SITTING

THERE.

ONE DAY I HAD ONE CLIENT.

SHE HAD A BIG GRIN ON HER

FACE.

SHE SAID, "JEN, DON'T BE MAD.

I FEEL LIKE I'M BACK HOME."

CAN YOU IMAGINE?

$31,000 A YEAR TO KEEP

SOMEBODY IN CITY JAIL, JUST TO

HOUSE THEM.

THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE MEDICAL

CARE, REHABILITATIVE SERVICES,

PROBATION AND PAROLE.

THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE

THE LIGHT SWITCH GO ON AND

LIGHTS COME ON AND THE PERSON

GETS A SHOWER AND THREE MEALS.

AND THE STATE PRISON SYSTEM,

IT'S ACTUALLY A LITTLE LESS IN

NEW YORK.

IT'S $20,000 A YEAR, AND THE

REASON IS IS BECAUSE STATE

PRISON SYSTEM IS ACTUALLY

ACTIVE FOR PROFIT.

THERE ARE MANY PRISONS THAT

MAKE-- ASIDE FROM LICENSE

PLATES, THEY MAKE OTHER

THINGS, LIKE ATTICA

CORRECTIONAL MAKES CORE CRAFT

FURNITURE.

ANYBODY FAMILIAR WITH IT?

YOU FIND IT VERY OFTEN IN THE

SERVICE IF ANYBODY HERE IS

R.O.T.C., IN THE ARMY RESERVE.

BLESS YOU.

WOULD YOU LIKE A WATER?

SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT

INMATES WORK FOR "X" AMOUNT OF

CENTS AN HOUR AND THEN THE

PRISON SYSTEM SELLS THIS

FURNITURE.

WE DON'T HAVE CORE CRAFT.

I HAVE CRAWLED UNDER HERE TO

LOOK.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE CORCRAFT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, SO THE PRISON

SYSTEM SELLS THE FURNITURE AND

THEN THEY'RE ABLE TO DEFRAY

PART OF THE COST OF INMATE

HOUSING.

SO THERE'S A WHOLE BUSINESS IN

PEOPLE BEING INCARCERATED.

IF THERE WERE NO INCARCERATES,

WHERE WOULD GOVERNMENT GET ALL

THE FURNITURE?

I'M NOT GOING TO BE MAKING THE

CORCRAFT.

SO VERY INTERESTING, YOU KNOW.

ANY QUESTIONS?

OH, SOMEBODY MUST HAVE A

QUESTION.

(Inaudible question)

>> SOME PEOPLE HAVE EMOTIONAL

PROBLEMS AND THEY DON'T GO IN

THAT DIRECTION.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE EMOTIONAL

PROBLEMS AND THEY END UP IN

JAIL OR AS PROSTITUTES.

WHY?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK IT

IS?

LET ME TELL YOU.

AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

I THINK EVERYBODY HAS

EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS.

EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN LITTLE

BRAND OF CRAZY THAT THEY WALK

AROUND WITH.

WE ALL HAVE IT.

THERE'S SOME LITTLE THING THAT

BOTHERS ALL OF US.

SOME PEOPLE ARE FAR MORE

RESILIENT THAN OTHERS.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE-- I

DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE MADE

OUT OF-- THEY'RE MARVELOUS.

THEY'RE MADE OUT OF SOMETHING

THAT IS ABLE TO ASSIST THEM IN

DEALING WITH THEIR EVERYDAY

ISSUES AND THEIR A.D.L. IS

JUST ABBREVIATION FOR

ACTIVITIES OF DAILY LIVING.

AND THEY CAN DO IT.

THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT

MAYBE THEY HAVE A

PREDISPOSITION TO CERTAIN

ILLNESSES.

LOOK AT DEPRESSION.

YOU KNOW, THEY ALWAYS TALK

ABOUT NATURE VERSUS NURTURE.

WELL, IF YOU HAVE A WHOLE

FAMILY OF DEPRESSED PEOPLE,

YOU KNOW, BY AND LARGE YOU'RE

PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE SOME

KIND OF, YOU KNOW,

PREDETERMINED ISSUES, YOU

KNOW.

THE THING IS IS THAT IN

PROSTITUTION, 99% OF THE

LADIES-- AND I DO HAVE SOME

MEN BY THE WAY THAT ARE

PROSTITUTES-- HAVE BEEN

SEXUALLY ABUSED.

AND THAT ONE ASPECT CHANGES

THE ENTIRE LANDSCAPE, THE

ENTIRE MENTAL HEALTH MATRIX

FOR PEOPLE.

YOU CAN HAVE TWO PEOPLE WITH

THE SAME PROBLEMS, BY AND

LARGE; BUT WHEN YOU ADD THAT

ELEMENT IN OF SEXUAL ABUSE,

CHILDHOOD TRAUMA, SEXUAL

ABUSE, SOMEBODY BEING RAPED,

ASSAULTED OR MOLESTED, THAT

SEEMS TO BE SUCH A DIFFICULT

CIRCUMSTANCE.

WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION SAYS

ONE-- I LOVE THIS.

AND BY THE WAY I DON'T BELIEVE

THESE NUMBERS.

I THINK THEY'RE HIGHER.

"ONE IN FOUR WOMEN BY THE AGE

OF 20 ARE GOING TO BE SEXUALLY

ABUSED, RAPED OR ASSAULTED IN

THEIR LIFETIME."

THAT'S SCARY.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS FOR

MEN?

THEY ALL GET UNCOMFORTABLE

WHEN I SAY THIS: ONE IN SEVEN.

AND YOU WANT TO KNOW

SOMETHING?

I DON'T THINK THAT NUMBER IS

RIGHT.

I THINK IT'S HIGHER.

BECAUSE MEN IN OUR CULTURE,

UNFORTUNATELY, HAVE BEEN

TRAINED TO, WHAT?

BE STRONG AND NOT.

THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK.

THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO CRY.

THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE

EMOTIONAL.

AND THEN WOMEN TURN AROUND

WHEN MEN BECOME 20 AND SAY HOW

COME HE'S SO UNEMOTIONAL?

WE TRAIN HIM TO BE THAT WAY.

THAT'S WHY HE'S LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, IN OUR SOCIETY, IT'S

REALLY SUCH A STIGMA TO BE A

FEMALE AND BE RAPED.

CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT MUST

BE LIKE, IF WE COULD, TO BE A

MALE WHO-- I'LL GIVE YOU AN

EXAMPLE, WHO'S HETEROSEXUAL

THAT'S RAPED BY ANOTHER MAN?

THAT BRINGS UP A LOT OF

ISSUES.

IT'S NOT ONLY THE ASSAULT;

IT'S NOT ONLY THE ATTACK, THE

INVASION OF YOUR PERSON, YOUR

BEING, YOUR SOUL, YOUR SPIRIT.

VERY OFTEN IT MAKES PEOPLE

QUESTION THEIR SEXUALITY.

NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING

WRONG WITH SOMEBODY

QUESTIONING THEIR SEXUALITY.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN.

IT SHOULD BE WHEN SOMEBODY IS

READY TO DO THAT.

IT SHOULDN'T BE IMPOSED UPON

THEM THROUGH SOME KIND OF

TRAUMA.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

THAT'S A SERIOUS NUMBER, ONE

IN SEVEN MEN.

(Inaudible question)

>> THAT'S SELF-REPORTED.

ABUSED, MOLESTS, ASSAULTED,

ATTACKED.

>> OKAY.

SO IT COULD BE ABUSED, EVEN IF

IT'S NOT SEXUAL ABUSE?

>> WELL, I'LL BE HONEST WITH

YOU.

>> LIKE GETTING BEATEN UP BY A

PARENT, BY A TEACHER, BY...

>> I'M GOING TO ANSWER YOUR

QUESTION WITH A QUESTION, IF

YOU DON'T MIND.

I HAD A CLIENT ONE DAY, A

MALE, THAT TALKED ABOUT ABUSE,

ABUSE, ABUSE, BEING BEATEN UP.

AND WHEN HE FELT THAT HE COULD

TRUST ME A LITTLE MORE, ONE

DAY WE TALKED ABOUT THE ACTUAL

ABUSE, WHICH IS VERY HARD.

MOST TIMES WE'D RATHER HAVE A

TOOTH PULLED THAN TO HAVE TO

TALK ABOUT THE ACTUAL ABUSE

AND THEIR ABUSER.

AND HE-- AND I DON'T MEAN TO

INSULT OR EMBARRASS ANYBODY,

SO PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF I DO.

HE SAID, "MY MOTHER USED TO

BEAT ME WITH A RULER ON MY

PENIS."

NOW I'M NOT A CLINICIAN.

I DO NOT HAVE A Ph.D. IN

PSYCHOLOGY, BUT I DO CONSIDER

THAT SEXUAL ABUSE.

SO IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHAT

IT IS.

YOU KNOW.

I DON'T MEAN TO SAY, WELL,

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE, YOU

KNOW, QUALIFIED AND

QUANTIFIED, BUT SOMETHING LIKE

THAT, I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY

NOT ONLY PHYSICAL ABUSE BUT

THAT'S SEXUAL ABUSE.

THAT'S EXTREMELY ASSAULTIVE.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY SOMEBODY

WOULD WANT TO DO THAT, OTHER

THAN TO DENIGRATE AND BELITTLE

THEIR MASCULINITY.

I MEAN I DON'T KNOW.

I CAN ONLY IMAGINE.

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IN MY LINE

OF WORK, SUZIE AND I WILL SIT

AND WE'LL SHAKE OUR HEADS AND

THEN I'LL SAY TO SUZIE, YOU

KNOW, IF WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE

SOME SENSE OUT OF SOMETHING

THAT'S SO OUTRAGEOUS.

IT'S A GOOD THING WE CAN'T

MAKE SENSE OUT OF IT.

THAT'S WHY WE DON'T HAVE AN

ANSWER.

IT'S VERY HARD TO THINK IN

THOSE TERMS.

SO IF THEY HAVE THAT TYPE OF

HISTORY, THAT SEEMS TO BE THE

NUGGET.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE PEARL IN

THE OYSTER THAT SOMEHOW SEALS

PEOPLE'S FATE.

>> WELL, I CAN TELL YOU THAT

(Inaudible)

... ANY MEMBER OF THEIR

IMMEDIATE FAMILY HAS BEEN

SEXUALLY ABUSED...

>> ASSAULTED, ATTACKED.

>> (Inaudible)

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S SORT

OF FUNNY.

WHEN I WORK IN PRISON, PEOPLE

WOULD SAY TO ME ALL THE TIME,

I THINK OUT OF CURIOSITY:

"WHAT ARE THE MURDERER LIKE?"

I DON'T KNOW.

SOME OF THEM LIKE JELL-O AND

SOME DON'T.

THEY'RE LIKE ANYBODY ELSE, YOU

KNOW.

"WHAT ARE THE RAPISTS LIKE?"

I DON'T KNOW.

SOME OF THEM LIKE OLD WOMEN,

YOUNG WOMEN.

IT DOESN'T MATTER, MEN, BOYS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF

SEX.

IT'S A MATTER OF POWER AND

CONTROL.

BUT THE ONE THING I CAN

HONESTLY SAY ABOUT SEX

OFFENDERS IS THAT, WHEN YOU

HAVE A VICTIM AND A FAMILY,

THE FAMILY ISN'T TALKING TO--

SORT OF LIKE COCKROACHES.

THERE'S NEVER JUST ONE

COCKROACH.

YOU SEE ONE BUT YOU KNOW THERE

ARE OTHER ONES.

WELL, IN FAMILY INCEST,

THERE'S NEVER JUST ONE VICTIM.

NOW, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING

SCIENTIFIC TO GIVE YOU OR I

WOULD.

I'M JUST TELLING YOU, FROM MY

DEALINGS OVER THE YEARS IN

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, I'VE

HAD THE-- THE-- I DON'T KNOW,

THE EXPERIENCE, POSITIVE

EXPERIENCE IN WORKING WITH SEX

OFFENDERS THAT WOULD TELL ME

ALL KINDS OF THINGS SOMETIMES,

SOMETIMES VERY GRUESOME THINGS

THAT THEY DO TO THEIR VICTIMS.

BUT IT WOULD GIVE ME A VERY

LARGE UNDERSTANDING, BECAUSE

HERE I AM NOW WORKING WITH

PEOPLE WHO ARE ABUSED.

JUST SORT OF INTERESTING.

MOST PEOPLE IN THEIR CAREER

REALLY DON'T WORK WITH BOTH

SIDES OF THE COIN.

>> I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT YOU

MEAN... (Inaudible)

>> YOU KNOW, NOT A LOT OF

PEOPLE ASK ME THAT.

ARE YOU READY FOR THIS?

YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST STARTED

OUT IN COLLEGE, I WENT TO

COMMUNITY COLLEGE BECAUSE, YOU

KNOW, I DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF

FUNDS AND I HAD TAKEN SOME--

OH, I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL

THEM LIBERAL ARTS CLASSES.

I WAS TRYING TO GET MY FEET

WET, SO TO SPEAK.

AND AT ONE TIME I THOUGHT THAT

I WAS GOING TO BE INTERESTED

IN DESIGN AND COLOR AT ONE

TIME, AND I HAD ONE LITTLE

SEMESTER AT PARSONS SCHOOL OF

DESIGN, VERY NICE.

I WAS ON A SCHOLARSHIP.

IT WAS LOVELY.

LOTS OF COLORS.

REALIZED I COULDN'T MAKE ANY

MONEY IN DESIGN.

MAYBE IT'S DIFFERENT TODAY

WITH ALL THESE HOME SHOWS, YOU

KNOW.

AND THEN I GOT A SCHOLARSHIP

TO GO TO OSWEGO AND I WAS

REALLY INTERESTED IN THE

SCIENCES.

I HAD A STRONG APTITUDE FOR

MATH AND SCIENCE AND FOR A

VERY LONG TIME I WAS A

CHEMISTRY MAJOR.

AND THEN IN MY JUNIOR YEAR I

TOOK ONE LITERATURE CLASS AND

IT RUINED ME!

AND I WENT FROM ONE-- I WANTED

TO MAKE THE BEST SOAP PLATE

YOU COULD EVER BUY.

YOU'RE ALL LIQUID SOAP PEOPLE,

BUT YOU REMEMBER SOAP PLATES.

SOAP PLATES!

AND I WANTED TO MAKE, YOU

KNOW, DIFFERENT SOAP PLATES.

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CALL BATH

AND BODY AND THEY HAVE APRICOT

LOTION?

BACK IN OUR DAY-- OBVIOUSLY

YOU, TOO-- BACK IN OUR DAY, US

21-PLUS GALS, REMEMBER HOW IT

WAS?

IT WAS ONE KIND OF LOTION,

MAYBE TWO.

YOU HAD SUAVE AND JERGENS AND

IT ALL MELD SMELLED THE SAME.

TODAY IN YOUR GENERATION, YOU

HAVE, I DON'T KNOW, 500 BRANDS

OF LOTION.

I WANTED TO CREATE DETERGENT

THAT SMELLED LIKE APRICOTS AND

FRUIT.

THAT'S HOW I WANTED TO SPEND

MY LIFE.

AND THEN I TOOK ONE, ONE

LITERATURE CLASS BECAUSE, WHY?

IT WAS A CORE REQUIREMENT AND

I HAD TO DO IT.

AND I FELL ABSOLUTELY IN LOVE.

AND THE THEY FIRST THING WE

READ IN THAT CLASS WAS RALPH

WALDO EMERSON AND I FELT THAT

I UNDERSTOOD EMERSON BECAUSE

HE HAD WRITTEN A PIECE CALLED

"EXPERIENCE."

ANYBODY EVER READ

"EXPERIENCE"?

AND HE WROTE IT-- DID YOU READ

IT?

AND RALPH WALDO EMERSON

SUFFERED GREAT LOSSES.

HE BURIED A CHILD, AND IF

ANYBODY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT

NATURE, WHICH WE ALL DO, IT'S

UNNATURAL TO HAVE TO BURY A

CHILD.

IF NATURE WORKS THE RIGHT WAY,

MY CHILDREN WILL BURY ME.

AND SO I FELT THAT I COULD

RELATE TO RALPH WALDO EMERSON,

ESPECIALLY AFTER MY

EXPERIENCES.

SO I MAJORED IN ENGLISH

LITERATURE AND THEN WENT ON TO

GET A MASTERS DEGREE IN

ENGLISH LITERATURE AND THEN I

LATER, IN MY LATER ACADEMIC

CAREER, GOT A MASTERS DEGREE

IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION.

SO EVERYBODY SAYS TO ME WHAT'S

PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION?

YOU ADMINISTER THE PUBLIC?

SO I ALWAYS GET A LITTLE

RIBBING THERE.

AND THEN AT ONE TIME I THOUGHT

MAYBE I WANTED TO GO TO SCHOOL

AT CORNELL FOR LABOR

RELATIONS, A Ph.D. IN LABOR

RELATIONS.

QUITE FRANKLY I DON'T NEED

THAT TO DO WHAT I DO.

A YEAR AGO THE NEWSPAPERS

DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE

FOLLOWED ME AROUND-- I DON'T

KNOW WHY BUT SHE FOLLOWED ME

AROUND AND SHE HAD WRITTEN

SOME INTERESTING ARTICLES.

MAYBE THERE'S A COPY, SUZIE,

OVER THERE THAT YOU COULD

CIRCULATE.

AND SHE ASKED ME A VERY

DIFFICULT QUESTION.

SHE SAID "WHY DO YOU DO WHAT

YOU DO?"

BECAUSE CERTAINLY I CAN MAKE

MUCH MORE MONEY DOING

SOMETHING ELSE.

MY LIFE INSURANCE WOULD

PROBABLY BE AT A MUCH LOWER

PREMIUM BECAUSE I'M CONSIDERED

IN A HIGH RISK CATEGORY.

AND THE THING IS IS THAT I

FEEL THAT, BECAUSE I CAN DEAL

WITH ALL THESE HORRIBLE THINGS

I CAN LISTEN TO AND STILL HAVE

HALF MY SANITY AND HELP

PEOPLE, I FEEL THAT BECAUSE I

CAN DO IT, I HAVE TO DO IT.

SO AT THIS POINT I'VE SORT OF

WRITTEN OFF GETTING A Ph.D. IN

LABOR RELATIONS BECAUSE I'D

RATHER BE ON LYELL AVENUE WITH

MY PROSTITUTES.

THAT WAS A LONG ANSWER TO A

VERY SHORT QUESTION.

WOULD YOU LIKE A WATER?

YOU ASKED.

THAT WAS THE DEAL.

IF SOMEBODY WANTED A LOVELY

GLASS OF WATER ON A VERY FANCY

DOILY.

A TASTY GLASS OF WATER.

TASTY.

I'M GOING TO TELL A FUNNY

STORY.

AGAIN I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND

ANYBODY SO PLEASE FORGIVE ME

IF I DO.

WE'RE ALL ADULTS.

>> QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR

(Inaudible) SOME PEOPLE MIGHT

WANT TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS.

>> OF COURSE.

I'LL HANG OUT.

>> YOU'LL HANG OUT, RIGHT?

(Inaudible)

>> SURE.

I HAVE NOWHERE TO GO UNTIL

ABOUT MIDNIGHT.

ANYWAY, WE COULD JUST HANG

OUT.

I'M GOING TO TELL A STORY.

I WENT TO MEET ONE OF MY

LADIES-- TALK ABOUT BEVERAGES.

I WENT TO MEET ONE OF MY

LADIES ON LYELL AVENUE, AND

SHE SAID-- LYELL AVENUE IS

WHERE ALL THE PROSTITUTES ARE

IN ROCHESTER, IN CASE YOU NEED

TO KNOW.

AND I MET HER OUT THERE.

SHE SAID TO ME, "OH, I'M DYING

FOR A DRINK."

AND I'M THINKING, AH, THIS IS

GREAT.

9:00 IN THE MORNING I HAVE TO

HEAR ABOUT DRINKS.

I SAID, "YOU KNOW, I DON'T

THINK SO."

AND SHE SAID, "NO, NO, NO.

I WANT A GLASS OF MILK."

I'M THINKING TO MYSELF, OH, WE

CAN DO THAT.

SO WE GO INTO THIS STORE, THIS

CONVENIENCE STORE AND SHE SAYS

TO THE FELLOW-- WE'RE WALKING

THROUGH THE STORE AND SHE

OBVIOUSLY WORKED ALL NIGHT AND

SHE'S DRUGGED OUT AND

EVERYTHING ELSE.

SHE SAID TO THE FELLOW DO YOU

HAVE ANY ACIDOPHILUS MILK?

AND THIS FELLOW WHO OWNED THE

CONVENIENCE STORE WAS FROM

ANOTHER CULTURE AND SPOKE

ANOTHER LANGUAGE, AND I DON'T

KNOW WHAT HE TRANSLATED

ACIDOPHILUS MILK AS, BUT AS

FAR AS HE WAS CONCERNED SHE

ASKED HIM FOR SOME ACID THAT

SHE WANTED TO DROP IN HIS

STORE.

SO HE GOES ABSOLUTELY WILD AND

STARTS CREAM SCREAMING AT HER.

I DON'T DO THAT IN MY STORE!

HOW DARE YOU COME IN HERE?

?!

YOU TAKE YOUR SCRAWNY SELF OUT

AND HE'S GOING NUTS.

WE GET BACK TO THE MILK AND

SHE LOOKS AND SHE SAYS 2%, 1%,

NON-FAT AND SHE'S GOING

THROUGH ALL THESE MILKS.

SHE SAID, "I JUST WANTED

ACIDOPHILUS MILK."

SO NEEDLESS TO SAY, WE DECIDED

WE'D GET OVER TO THE FELLOW

BECAUSE HE'S WATCHING US LIKE

WE'RE GOING TO, I DON'T KNOW,

ROB HIM I SUPPOSE.

HE SAYS TO HER, AND I QUOTE--

THIS HAS TO DO WITH LIFE, WHAT

IT'S LIKE ON THE STREET.

HE SAYS, "WHAT DO YOU CARE

WHAT KIND OF MILK YOU DRINK?

WHAT DO YOU CARE IF YOU NEED

SOME KIND OF ACID MILK?

HE SAYS YOU GIVE ORAL SEX ALL

NIGHT.

YOU CAN DRINK ANYTHING."

CAN YOU IMAGINE?

AT WHICH POINT I SAID WELL,

YOU KNOW, DO YOU HAVE LIKE A

SNAPPLE OR SOMETHING?

I MEAN WHAT DO YOU SAY AFTER

THAT, YOU KNOW?

SO WE GET OUTSIDE OF THE

STORE, AND TO THINK YOU DIDN'T

WANT TO HEAR THIS STORY.

WE GET OUT OF THE STORE, AND

HERE I'M THINKING TO MYSELF,

GEE, I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING

CALMING AND, YOU KNOW, TO

VALIDATE HER AS A PERSON

BECAUSE SHE BASICALLY GOT

TOLD, WELL, BECAUSE YOU'RE A

HO, YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY

ABOUT LACTOSE INTOLERANCE.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S THE CRAZIEST THING I EVER

HERDS.

WE GET OUT OF THE STORE AND I

FEEL BAD FOR HER.

WE HAVE OUR SNAPPLES AND SHE

LOOKS AT ME AND SHE SAYS "I

JUST CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT HE

SAID TO ME."

I'M THINKING, AH, HERE WE GO.

SHE SAYS, "I'M OUTRAGED."

I SAID TO HER, "WELL, YOU

SHOULD BE."

SHE SAID, "WHAT STORE TODAY

DOESN'T CARRY ACIDOPHILUS

MILK?"

(Laughter)

SO I ALWAYS THINK OF THAT.

THAT'S WHAT ALL THESE

BEVERAGES REMINDED ME OF,

THESE TASTY BEVERAGES.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY

QUESTIONS?

I DON'T BITE.

YES, MY DEAR.

(Inaudible question)

I'LL TELL YOU, AFTER MEETING

Mr. DUBUS, I DEFINITELY THINK

THAT HE UNDERSTANDS WOMEN

LOVELY FELLOW, ENCHANTING AND

HE'S LOVELY TO LISTEN TO.

I JUST FOUND IT INTERESTING

THAT I THINK WHAT WOULD HAVE

CHANGED OUR WHOLE DYNAMIC IN

UNDERSTANDING THIS IF WE SAW

MORE WOMEN OF AUTHORITY

FIGURES IN THIS BOOK BUT WE

DON'T.

WE DON'T SEE THEM ANYWHERE

REALLY OTHER THAN THE

ATTORNEY, WHO DOESN'T SEEM TO

HELP HER.

WHO DOESN'T-- YOU KNOW, KATHY

DOESN'T GET WHAT IT IS THAT

SHE NEEDS FROM HER.

(Inaudible question)

AND A LOT OF RESOURCES.

I REMEMBER HE SAID THAT THEY

DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD TO

SORT OF SCRAPE UP TOGETHER

AMONG THEMSELVES.

SO THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN

CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW.

YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT

THIS WAY.

YOU LOOK AT MUSIC.

HOW MUCH OF A MUSICIAN THAT

WRITES HIS OR HER OWN MUSIC

HAS THEIR PAST EITHER IN THE

MUSIC, INTEGRATED WITHIN THE

MUSIC?

LOOK AT-- I HAPPEN TO LIKE

EMINEM AN AWFUL LOT, AND I

THINK HE'S-- HE TALKS ABOUT

SOME VERY CLEAR ISSUES IN HIS

MUSIC.

SO HOW CAN WE SEPARATE THE

MUSICIAN FROM THE MUSIC?

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU KNOW.

THE SPIRIT OF HIS WORDS, YOU

KNOW.

I THINK HIS ONE SONG "STAN."

IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT,

THEN YOU KNOW IT.

YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT.

BUT HE'S SAYING HOW FAR IS

THIS PERSON FROM HIS OR HER

WORK?

LOOK AT van GOGH, MARVELOUS

ARTIST.

HOW FAR WAS HE FROM HIS OWN

WORK?

NOT SO FAR.

EVERYBODY THOUGHT THAT van

GOGH LOVED TO PAINT FLOWERS

AND LOVED TO PAINT STILL LIFE.

NO, HE WASN'T IN LOVE WITH

PAINTING FLOWERS AND PAINTING

STILL LIFE.

HE SPENT A BIG PART OF HIS

ADULTHOOD LIVING IN A

SANITARIUM, AND HIS CHOICE WAS

TO EITHER PAINT STILL LIFE,

FLOWERS IN THE FIELD OUTSIDE

THE DOOR OF THE SANITARIUM, OR

PAINT THE OTHER PATIENTS

TALKING TO THEMSELVES.

SO YOU TAKE YOUR PICK.

YOU KNOW?

SO VERY OFTEN I THINK THE

ARTIST IS VERY MUCH, YOU KNOW,

INTEGRATED INTO HIS OR HER OWN

WORK.

YOU KNOW, WOULD WE HAVE EMILY

DICKINSON, YOU KNOW, TO WRITE

AFTER GREAT PAIN?

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS SHE

NEEDED WHAT SHE HAD IN HER

LIFE AS INFLUENCE TO WRITE

WHAT IT IS THAT SHE WROTE.

CERTAINLY I THINK THAT WAY OF

EMERSON.

ACTUALLY IF WILL SHAKESPEARE

WAS ALIVE I'D LOVE TO GO TO

HAPPY HOUR WITH HIM.

I THINK HE HAD A MARVELOUS

SENSE OF HUMOR.

THANK YOU.

(Applause)

I WANT TO TAKE THIS HOME SO I

CAN YELL AT MY FAMILY.

LAUNDRY, MAIN FLOOR.

I DON'T KNOW OF I JUST THINK

THIS WOULD BE GREAT.

>> THANK YOU.

Maintained by Susan Mee